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Brooks and Capehart on Tucker Carlson’s access to Jan. 6 video, war in Ukraine

Divided Republicans Debate U.S. Support for Ukraine Amidst Security Footage Controversy

  • David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart discussed the implications of Tucker Carlson’s access to security footage from January 6th
  • They suggested that it should be given to everyone, not just Carlson
  • They were concerned about how it would be used by Carlson
  • Republicans are divided on U.S. support for Ukraine, with 47% saying there’s too much support and 54% of Trump voters saying the same
  • This could lead to friction between the administration and Congress when it comes to funding Ukraine.

Ukraines War: Democracy Vs. Autocracy in a Fateful Conflict

  • The war in Ukraine has been earth-shaking, leading to a reform of the Western Alliance, an expansion of American influence, changes in military strategy, a global decoupling of economies, and a closer relationship between Russia and China
  • It is a battle between democracy and autocracy that is growing more fraught as Russia becomes more desperate
  • President Zelenskyy’s efforts in the past year have been extraordinary and indicative of the Ukrainian people’s resilience
  • The outlook for an eventual negotiated settlement is uncertain but may be impacted by the potential involvement of China.

Western Alliance Support in Doubt as Energy Market Reshaping Hits Ukraine and Europe

  • The global energy market is undergoing reshaping, and the reporting of this story by Nick Schifrin has been instrumental in understanding the knock-on effects
  • However, those impacts are felt more immediately in Ukraine and Europe
  • The longer this goes on, the likelihood of declining support for Ukraine increases and raises questions about what that could mean for the future
  • The Western Alliance may be able to rely on a sense of empathy from citizens, as demonstrated with an Irish lady at a passport checkpoint who gave priority to a Ukrainian family.

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SAND THE PARTIES PRIMETIME STAR.AMNA: FOR INSIGHTS INTO THELARGER IMPLICATIONS OF TUCKERCARLSON'S ACCESS TO THE JANUARYSIXTH FOOTAGE, AND WHAT THE YEAROF WAR IN UKRAINE CAN TELL USABOUT THE FUTURE DIRECTION OFTHAT CONFLICT AND THE WORLD,WE TURN TO THE ANALYSIS OFBROOKS AND CAPEHART.THAT'S NEW YORK TIMES COLUMNISTDAVID BROOKS AND JONATHANCAPEHART, ASSOCIATE EDITOR FORTHE WASHINGTON POST.GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.LET'S PICK UP WHERE LISA LEFTOFF.THIS IDEA THAT SPEAKER MCCARTHYHAS HANDED OVER THESE HOURS OFSECURITY FOOTAGE TO TUCKERCARLSEN.THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARGUE, LETEVERYONE SEE EVERYTHING AND MAKEUP THEIR OWN MIND.IS THERE VALIDITY?JONATHAN: SURE, SIMPLY BECAUSETHE SPEAKER HAS GIVEN ALL OFTHIS FOOTAGE TO CODE -- TOTUCKER CARLSON.IF YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE IT TOHIM, GIVE IT TO EVERYBODY.SO THAT THEY CAN LOOK AT IT.BUT I DON'T NEED TO SEE 44,000HOURS WORTH OF FOOTAGE.I WATCHED OUR GOVERNMENT BEINGATTACKED BY SUPPORTERS OF THEFORMER PRESIDENT, LIVE, ONTELEVISION, IN REAL TIME OVERSEVERAL HOURS.I DON'T KNOW WHAT ARE -- WHATTUCKER CARLSON IS GOING TO DOWITH THE FOOTAGE AND HOW HE ISGOING TO PRESENTED ON HIS SHOW,BUT WHATEVER IT IS AND HOWEVERHE DOESN'T AND WHENEVER HE DOESIT WILL BE A DISSERVICE TO HISVIEWERS, A DISSERVICE TO THISCOUNTRY.AMNA: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HE ISGOING TO DO WITH IT.I AM BAFFLED BY THIS IDEA THATIT SEEMED THAT REPUBLICANSWANTED TO GET AS FAR AWAY FROMJANUARY 6 AS THEY COULD.THIS GOES LIKE THEY ARERESURRECTING IT.WHY TALK ABOUT IT?DAVID: MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENEWAS ECSTATIC OVER THIS.THIS IS CLEARLY WHAT THEY WANTEDIN EXCHANGE FOR VOTING FOR KEVINMCCARTHY.I GUESS THEIR ARGUMENT IS THEPEOPLE ON THE COMMITTEE WERE NOTFRIENDS TO DONALD TRUMP.SOMEBODY WHO IS MORE FRIENDLY TODONALD TRUMP SHOULD HAVE A WHACKAT IT.YOU WANT TO PICK THE TUCKERCARLSON, --JONATHAN: I WILL LAUGH.DAVID: IN GENERAL, AS LONG ASTHEY PREDICT THE PROCEDURES OFTHIS, THE CAPITOL SECURITY, ASLONG AS YOU DON'T RELEASE THOSE,HAVING ANY PUBLIC OFFICIAL,GIVING EVERYTHING TO IT ONE NEWSORGANIZATION?THAT IS JUST BIZARRE AND AGAINSTTHE RULES OF WHAT WE DO.IF YOU GIVE IT TO ONE NEWSORGANIZATION, IT SHOULD BE --OFF THE RECORD, IT IS NOT DONE.YOU GIVE IT TO THE PUBLIC.AMNA: ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT HOWTHEY WILL USE IT?DAVID: YEAH, I WORRY EVERYTHINGTALK -- EVERYTHING ABOUT TUCKERTOUCHES.I THINK THE CONSPIRACY THEORIESARE OUT THERE.IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE THEMBUILDING ANOTHER MOUNTAIN OFNONSENSE ON TOP OF THE EXISTINGMOUNTAIN OF NONSENSE THAT COMESOUT.AMNA: WE WILL BE WAITING ANDWATCHING AND TALKING ABOUT ITMORE.THAT IS ONE OF THE ISSUESDIVIDING AMERICANS.WE ASKED IN OUR LATEST PBSNEWSHOUR MARIST NPR PAUL INNUMBER OF OTHER ISSUES THATAMERICANS HAVE VARYING OFFICIALS-- OPINIONS ON.WE ASKED YOU, AND YOU POINTED TOTHE SAME QUESTION, WHICH IS ONTHE QUESTION OF U.S. SUPPORT FORUKRAINE.WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THOSENUMBERS, WE ASKED PEOPLE WHATTHEY THOUGHT ABOUT THE LEVEL OFSUPPORT.42% OF PEOPLE SAID WE AREPROVIDING THE RIGHT AMOUNT OFSUPPORT.THE THIRD OF PEOPLE WHO SAID WEARE PROVIDING TOO MUCH SUPPORT,THAT DID STICK OUT TO ME.REPUBLICANS FEEL THERE IS TOOMUCH SUPPORT FROM THE U.S. GOINGTO UKRAINE.WHY DID THAT STAND OUT TO YOU?JONATHAN: BECAUSE OF WHAT WEHAVE BEEN HEARING FROM THEREPUBLICAN HOUSE MAJORITY.MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE ANDOTHERS AND KEVIN MCCARTHYTALKING ABOUT MAYBE WE AREGIVING TOO MUCH SUPPORT.THE FACT THAT 47% OF REPUBLICANSSAY IT IS TOO MUCH AND 4% OFTRUMP VOTERS -- 54% OF TRUMPVOTERS SAY IT IS TOO MUCH, THATSAYS AFTER THE PRESIDENTRELEASES HIS BUDGET, OR WHEN THEPRESIDENT GOES TO CONGRESS FORMORE FUNDING, THAT WE WILL STARTTO SEE THIS FRICTION WE HAVEONLY BEEN TALKING ABOUT INTHEORY PLAY OUT IN PUBLIC.FROM THE ADMINISTRATION'SPERSPECTIVE, THAT DAYLIGHT ISNOT HELPFUL.WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAS BEENBANKING ON IS A UNIFIED FRONT,WITHIN THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENTFOR UKRAINE, AND AMONG THEALLIANCE.IF THAT PHRASE WITHIN THE UNITEDSTATES, THE FEAR IS THAT COULDIMPACT THE ALLIANCE.AMNA: WHAT DO THOSE NUMBERS SAYTO YOU?DAVID: IT IS FASCINATING, THEREWAS A POLL THAT HAD SIMILARNUMBERS TWO HOURS.40% OF REPUBLICANS SAID WE AREGIVING TOO MUCH.RADICALLY DIFFERENT POLICYAGENDAS.RON DESANTIS WENT ON FOX ANDFRIENDS, AND HE DANCED BETWEENTHE TWO, EDGING A LITTLE BIT.WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IS A PARTYBITTERLY DIVIDED OVER SOMETHINGOF REAL SUBSTANCE.THE PRIMARIES WILL JUST REVEALTHAT OVER AND OVER.AMNA: AS WE MARK ONE YEAR SINCETHE RUSSIAN INVASION OF UKRAINETHIS WEEK, A ONE WE SHOULDREMIND PEOPLE MANY THOUGHT WOULDNOT LAST, BUT A MATTER OF DAYS.WE SAW WHAT BOTH OF YOU HAD TOSAY YEAR AGO.HERE IS A SNIPPET OF WHAT YOUWERE SAYING A YEAR AGO WHEN ITCAME TO THE WAR IN UKRAINE.>> WE WERE BLESSED TO LIVE FORMANY YEARS IN THIS ERA OF RULES.WE MAY BE ENDING THAT ERA ANDREENTERING AN ERA OF GREAT POWERRIVALRIES AS WE SAW IN THE 17THCENTURY, 15TH-CENTURY.>> WE ARE SEEING RIGHT THERE THEBATTLE BETWEEN DEMOCRACY ANDAUTOCRACY, AND HAVING DEMOCRACYWHEN IS NOT ASSURED, ESPECIALLYBECAUSE DEMOCRACY HERE IN THEUNITED STATES IS THE WEAKEST ITHAS BEEN IN MEMORY.AMNA: IT IS NICE TO HAVE YOUBOTH HERE IN PERSON RATHER THANYOUR HOME STUDIOS.DO YOU STILL SEE IT THE SAMEWAY?DOES DEMOCRACY STAND A BETTERCHANCE TODAY?JONATHAN: YES.ARGUABLY YES.AT THAT MOMENT, WE WERE NOT SUREWHETHER UKRAINE, PRESIDENTZELENSKYY, NO ONE HAD ANY KINDOF EXPECTATION OF HIM OR OF THECOUNTRY.WE WERE DISABUSED OF THAT WITHINDAYS.THE FACT THAT WE ARE HEREENTERING YEAR TWO ISEXTRAORDINARY.IT SAYS A LOT ABOUT PRESIDENTZELENSKYY.IT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THEUKRAINIAN -- MORE ABOUT THEUKRAINIAN PEOPLE.THEIR WILLINGNESS TO FIGHT FORTHEIR COUNTRY.MEN AND WOMEN, ANYONE.REMEMBER IN THOSE EARLYPICTURES, PEOPLE LEARNING HOW TOSHOOT GUNS BECAUSE THEY WEREGOING TO DEFEND THEMSELVESAGAINST THE RUSSIANS.THAT FIGHT BETWEEN DEMOCRACY ANDAUTOCRACY IS STILL THERE.WE COULD BE FACING A SITUATIONWHERE THAT BATTLE WILL BECOMEMORE FRAUGHT AS RUSSIA GETS MOREDESPERATE.AMNA: WHAT ABOUT YOU, ARE WEDEEPER INTO THIS NEW ERA?DAVID: WE ARE.IT IS HARD TO OVERESTIMATE HOWBIG OF A DEAL THIS WAR HAS BEEN.WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE EVENTSOF THE LAST YEAR, IT HAS BEENEARTHSHAKING.FIRST, THE HUMANITARIAN CRISISHAS JUST BEEN OVERWHELMING.SECOND, THE WESTERN ALLIANCE HASBEEN REFORMED.AMERICAN INFLUENCE IN THE WORLDHAS EXPANDED.MILITARY STRATEGIES HAVE BEENCHANGED BY THE WAR.THERE HAS BEEN A GLOBALDECOUPLING OF OUR ECONOMIES.RUSSIA AND CHINA HAVE COMETOGETHER.THESE ARE ALL BIG EVENTS THATHAVE BEEN SET OFF BY THIS WAR.AND I THINK BASICALLY, THECONTRADICTIONS HAVE BECOMEFOCUSED.WE IN THE WEST, INCLUDING JAPANAND OTHER COUNTRIES, THEDEMOCRACY LOVING COUNTRIES, HAVEBEEN STRENGTHENED AND HARDENEDBY THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE.BUT EVEN THIS WEEK THE RUSSIANSAND CHINESE ARE GETTING CLOSERTOGETHER.IT LOOKS LIKE A GLOBAL POWERSTRUGGLE BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO WANTTO RESPECT HUMAN DIGNITY, ANDPEOPLE WHO, NOT SO MUCH.AMNA: CHINA'S ENTRY INTO THISWAR, THAT CHANGE THE DIRECTIONOF THE WAR?DAVID: FOR SURE.ONE THINKS OF THE KOREAN WAR.THAT WAS A WAR STARTED BY ARUSSIAN DICTATOR.THEY HAD SOME SUCCESS BUT THEYTHOUGHT THE U.S. WOULD NEVER GETINVOLVED.IT TURNED OUT NOT TO BE.THE U.S. GOT INVOLVED, PUSHEDTHEM BACK, GOT THE CHINESEINVOLVED, THE CHINESE ALTEREDTHE COURSE OF THE WAR FOR ALITTLE WHILE, THEN WE PUSHEDTHEM BACK.IT WAS A DEADLOCK.WE SIGNED AN ARMISTICE THATPEOPLE THOUGHT WAS TEMPORARY,TURNED OUT TO DO NOT TEMPORARY.AS PEOPLE LOOK TO THE FUTURE OFUKRAINE AND THE POSSIBILITY OFNEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT, I THINK ALOT WILL DETERMINE WHAT HAPPENSTHE SPRING.THEN WE CAN START TO THINK ABOUTHOW CAN WE GET THROUGH?NEGOTIATED PEACE WE ARE NOTTHERE.I'M SURE PUTIN IS HOPING CHINAWILL ALTER THE WAR.AMNA: AMERICANS HAVE FELT THEEFFECT OF THE WAR TO SOMEDEGREE.CERTAINLY RESHAPING OF THEGLOBAL ENERGY MARKET, BUT KNOCKON EFFECTS OF ALL OF THAT.AND BEARING WITNESS THROUGH THEREPORTING, LIKE NICK SCHIFRINHAS BEEN DOING.BUT IT IS NOT NECESSARILY THESAME FOR UKRAINIANS OR EVENEUROPEANS WHO ARE FEELING ITMORE IMMEDIATELY.YOU THINK THE LONGER THIS GOESON WE SEE A DECLINE IN SUPPORT,AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THEFUTURE?JONATHAN: UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSEOF OUR OCEANS AND MOST OF THEAMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE NO REALSKIN IN THE GAME, IT IS EASY FORUS TO GO FROM THE EUPHORIA OFCHEERING ON AN UNDERDOG, TOO,THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON A WHILE,I'M GOING TO THINK ABOUT OTHERTHINGS.BUT WE IN THIS BUSINESS, WECANNOT BE A PART OF THATPROCESS.WE HAVE TO KEEP TELLING THESTORIES, WE HAVE TO KEEP DOINGTHE REPORTING, WE HAVE TO KEEPEXPLAINING WHY THIS ISIMPORTANT.THIS JUST ISN'T BECAUSE RUSSIAINVADED UKRAINE.THERE ARE BIGGER ISSUES HERETHAT DAVID POINTED OUT.IF CHINA DOES PROVIDE LETHAL AIDTO RUSSIA, HOW DOES THE BIDENADMINISTRATION HOLD BACK ONTHOSE F-16'S THAT PRESIDENTZELENSKYY HAS BEEN ASKING FOR?IF THIS TRULY IS A BATTLEBETWEEN DEMOCRACY AND AUTOCRACY,AT SOME POINT, DEMOCRACY WILLHAVE TO REAR UP ON ITS HIND LEGSAND SMACKED DOWN AUTOCRACY, ANDWE COULD SEE THAT AFTER WE SEEWHAT HAPPENS WITH THE SPRINGOFFENSIVE.AMNA: YOU SEE THIS STRETCHINGANOTHER YEAR?DAVID: FOR SURE.BUT ICS HOLDING STILL -- BUT ISEE THE WEST HOLDING STILL.I WAS IN DUBLIN AND I'M WAITINGTO GET MY PASSPORT CHECKED,THERE IS A LOUD IRISH LADYRUNNING THE LINE, AND SHE SAYS,CLEAR WAY, CLEAR WAY, AND SHEHAS THIS UKRAINIAN FAMILY.SHE SAID, THESE PEOPLE ARE GOINGFIRST, THESE ARE THE MOSTIMPORTANT PEOPLE IN THE WORLDRIGHT NOW, AND WE ALL BOW ANDSHAKE HANDS.THAT IRISH LADY, ON HER OWN,WILL HELP THE WESTERN ALLIANCESTAY.AMNA: I THINK WE CAN ALL BUYINTO THAT IDEA.THANK YOU SO MUCH.♪