A high stakes visit betweentwo powerful strategic partnersis being watchedaround the worldfor the first timesince Russia invaded Ukraine.China's Xi Jinping is in Moscow meetingwith Russian President Vladimir Putin.Ukraine is, of course,expected to top the agenda.Three day tripwith Beijing framing itselfas a peacemaker.Mr.Xi says that China will workwith Russia to, in his words,safeguard the international order.It is truethat both of our countriesshare the same or similar goals,we have exerted effortsfor the prosperityof our respective countries.Clearly, we can cooperate and worktogether to achieve our goalsThe meeting comes just daysafter the International Criminal Courtissued an arrest warrant for VladimirPutin on war crimes charges.Just walk us through whatXi Jinping at this point needsfrom Russia.Well, Xi Jinping, I mean, bytraveling to Russiajust after securingthis unprecedentedthird presidential term,he's making very clear.He's sending a messageto the west, to the worldwhere his priorities lie.And even though,you know,his economic relationshipwith the United Statesand NATOis hugely important in terms of dollars,that's not Xi's priority.His priority is ideology.And he and Vladimir Putin sharethe belief that the world orderas it has existed for the last 70 years,you know, insuredby the United States,is a world order that needs to change.They believethat the system of democracy,the cultural liberalism,is is a disgrace.And they want to see the worldaligned more in the waythat their countries are,where they are controlled very heavilyby the government.And sothis isa bigger issue for PresidentXi than just Vladimir Putin's,you know,war crimeschargesin the International Criminal Court,bigger than the war in Ukraine itself.This is about,you know,combining the powers of these two nucleararmed authoritarian superpowersand using using that combined powerto shape the course ofof the world order for,you know, for the future.They both believe that this is theirthis is their mission.And so you know, this meeting,these three days,the decisionsthat they make,the conversationsthat they have seemedto be solidifying this,as they've called it, thereno limits partnership And and you seeXi Jinpingtrying to show China's,you know, China's force,not only militarily and economically,but alsoin diplomacy, brokeringthat peace deal in the Middle Eastrecently between Saudi Arabia and Iranand making sure that that deal,none of the official documentswould be in English.This isthis is what she has alwaysfelt is an inevitablerevival and rise of China.And he does not want the United Statesand the West standing in in that way.Now, an embarrassing defeat in Ukrainefor the Westis not somethingthat would disappoint Xi Jinping.So that is why there's growing concernthat he'sconsidering these arming of lethal,lethal weapons, ammunitionbecause we know thatthe US believesthat Russiamight not have any serviceable ammunitionbefore the end of this year.That'ssomething that China can help them with,along with microchipsand other other types of weapons.That could really change the coursefor Russian soldiers on the battlefield.So what happens overthe next few days of discussion, Zain,is going to have hugehuge ramifications for the war in Ukraineand beyond.We'll see what happens.I'm sure you'll be watching that very,very closely.Will Ripley live for us there.Thank you so much.It's time nowfor the exchangeand a conversation with your son.She's a senior fellowand co-director of Chinaat the Stimson Center,a Washington think tank.Thank you so much for being with us.Just walk us through at this pointwhy you thinkRussia needs China and vice versa.Thank you very much for having me.I think the reason why Russia needsChina is this point is quite clear.Russia has been under severeinternational sanctionssince the beginning of the war,and its economic partnerson the international markethas become increasingly limitedas a source of foreign funding,especially investmenthas also become limited.China is China.China is Russia's largest neighbor.And China also shares its anti-U.S.agenda with with Russia.So evidently China has appearedwhat emerged as one of the few partnersthat Russia comes to rely onin this precarious condition.The importsfrom the Chinese perspective,I think the most importantconsideration remains to be geopoliticsand about geopolitics.The Chinese would meanwhile thegreat power competitionor the strategic competitionwith the United States,no matter what,and regardlessof the result of the war in Ukraine.China sees Russiaas a partner,as a as a partner, as sharesthe same visionabout the needto counter the US hegemony in the world.So that geopolitical instinctreally dictates China'sbehavior at this point.So does China'ssort of cozying up to Russia.How much does itaffect China'srelationship with its Europeantrading partners, do you think?I think it does affect with China'srelationship with Europe,not only in terms of trade,but also in terms of the diplomacyand also in terms of the political opticsand the European concernabout Chinaaligning itselfwith Russiaand the implicationsit would have for the war in Ukraine,which is whyI thinkthe Chinese are tryingto frame this present Chinaas a peace brokerinstead of a Russia accomplicethrough this sort of this trip.So we saw that China made the proposalon the peacesettlement of the Ukraine crisisabout a month ago.And then earlier in March,Chinaalso facilitated the peace dealbetween Iran and Saudi.So all these are giving theinternational community,I would say, an illusionthat China is now going to emergeas a great mediatorbetween Russia and Ukraine,which I don't thinkis the primary goal of this trip.And I don't think it iswithin China's capacityto mediate the peace for the Ukraine war.Do you anticipate I mean, obviously,Zelensky,I'm sure, would want to speak to XiJinping. Can you.Do you anticipateany sort of situationwhere the coming daysXi Jinpingends up speaking to President Zelensky?Indeed, I think that's very wellspeculated, and that's very possiblyto beto be happeningafter Xi Jinping's trip to Moscow.And remember,whether the Chinese are trying to dois to frame or present China as a broker.So therefore,they want to present a caseobviously jumping, conductingshadow diplomacybetween Russia and Ukraine.So Xi Jinping meeting was putting firstand then having a virtual phone callor a real phone call,whereas with President Zelensky,it will give China that imageof being the brokerconducting shuttlediplomacy between the two.You mentioned that China doesn'treally have the capacity perse to sort of broker a real peace deal.But just explain to us how much China'sposition on the worldstage has been bolsteredby the sort of positionthat it's carving outfor itself in this war.Look, there are pros and cons.There are costs to China's position,and there are also some benefitsto China's position in terms of the cost.And most importantly,I was a China understands thatits pro-Russia neutrality is taking greatas doing great damageto China's relationship with the Westincluding boththe United States and Europe.And it also frames Chinaas a dishonest brokeror dishonest a playerin this whole thing.When China presentedas peace settlementproposal on February 24th,most people are underwhelmed by how emptyand how little substancethe deal actuallyor the proposal actually offers.So that's not necessarilygoing to doChina more favorin terms of his great power diplomacy.But on the other hand,I think the Chinese also see benefitsassociated with this,whereas this ambiguityin terms of the Russian war for Ukraine,because for a lot ofthe Chinese strategists,if the Chinese don't take a position.So every country and all parties tothe conflictwill want to gain China's favor.They will want to gain Chinato support their position.So I think there is also this argumentthat the China should remain neutralor should remainnon-committal in terms of is itin terms of its position.Last but not least,remember, for the Chinesethe most importantforeign policyconsideration is always goingto be the United States.So when they thinkabout the Indo-Pacific strategyand the strategic competitionwith the United States,I think the first question that emergesis that while U.S.is no longer distracted in Ukraine,then how much more attentionand how much more resources U.S.will be allocating towards China?And I think that's a real concern.All right.Jensen,the Stimson Center think tank,thank you so much for being with us.We appreciate.
